Friday, December 18, 2009

Understanding the OBC quota

For a long time, I have been juggling with two words "OBC quota". I have been trying to understand What does it actually mean and how will it influence everybody? How would it influence the beneficiaries , disadvantaged , benefactors and the neutral class? The neutral class certainly seems to be comprising of SC/STs. And the beneficiaries, disadvantaged and benefectors may seem to be OBCs, left out Upper castes and the politicians.
I have been restraining myself to comment on this issue, still trying to understand deeper links of this phenomena.
But now I am writing whatever i have absorbed from different permutations and combinations relating each other to this issue.
Though I still feel OBC quota has too many loop holes to make it reality. OBC quota could have been great boon to this developing country by helping all those who have been left out of the growth scene.
But it certainly proved out to be an important initiative in other sense . It has made the growing class to rethink on the issue of castes and caste system and re-evaluate their stand. With only SC/ST quota in place, they have been promptly relating everything related to SC/STs or Dalits to the quota provided to them. And viceversa , everything related to reservation was used to put the blame on to the SC/STs without trying to think the cause.
And till now they have been successful in isolating a certain class on the name of reservation. Even without reservation , they would have felt uneasy in including them to the mainstream on the name of popular customs and tradition. So they were successful in implementing this ideological phrase into action  "You remain happy with your quota, We are happy and accustomed to isolating you like your previous generations but from time to time, we would blame everything on you. ". But the monotony is broken now. They have been forced to look at this issue to the extent they never ignore. Now with reservation level rising to the waist, and not feet (sc/st reservation), the mouth is shouting , yelling and growling.
The mouth would continue to utter abuses till the head realizes that it is their rising mass and volume which is making the water rise up. And if they would have not grown that much, they would have drowned in it.
Reminder: It is not the war of the poor , by the poor or for the poor. It is war of growth. The poor has long back learnt to live like benthic organism unaffected by whatever happening above him.
Only the feet of others bother him and not the level of water.
With OBC reservation, the upper class/growing class is worried of its own growth.
I agree that 50% reservation is harsh but with this kind of severity, the growing class  may realize their mistake they did'nt realize when they had 22% reservation in front. Though it was to include the part of population into the mainstream but it gave the society another reason to isolate them, but surely they can't ignore and isolate more than 50% of the population on the name of quota now. Then they were enjoying the support of majority but now majority is against them to make them realize their mistake. After the income and least cut off cap on OBC quota, it may not benefit OBCs to a great extent, but it certainly has overturned the coin in the favour of deprived and victims. Now SC/STs have got the much needed support and freedom from chains of isolation. Now they know with almost 50% population branded as reserved, the racists/casteists can't bank upon the reason of reservation to victimize them. And true skin of the racists would be visible who were previously wearing the veil called anti-reservation. Certainly, this reservation can do more good to SC/STs then thought. It is the high time that society should rethink of its inherent major problems and not neglect them to appease themselves or it might lead to their isolation. The isolation of casteists be it on the grounds of reservation or the fake ideology they support is much needed. But certainly self realization is better than any kind of isolation, punishment or reverse-discrimination. The misguided growing class has to realize that humanity has to come before anything and they can't escape after exploiting humanity on the name of false culture.
The goverment may seem to be benefiting by the votes on the name of reservation and full support by the Parliament on this issue may seem to be appeasement or vote retaining. The government has also brought unknown consequences along with it. Politics has always been based on castes and its not that politicians have asked votes on the name of OBCs or SC/STs , the politicians have always asked for votes from their own particular castes first. A reddy leader has always been going to reddy dominant villages/places, A Rajput to Rajput dominant and so and so. And no reservation be it OBC is able to change that even if you call it game of votes.
SC/STs have always been treated seperatly or call it isolated. While other people in India are either Sharmas, Gujjars, Chaudharys, Jats etc, SC/STs have always been SC/STs or dalits before that or Shudras/Ati-shudras before that.
Who knows OBC reservation might bring some integration of Indian society ? people might forget what caste he may belong to and then at that time reservation may serve a bigger purpose.  I am not saying reservation is just because of dis-integration in the society and its has the purpose to dissolve it. But, if thats possible, we would need no more caste reservation then as the castes would have been dissolved into less-disintegrated groups OBC / SC/ST and general.
But today is very different , even if we remove the reservation from the constitution, the words like SC/ST ,dalits, castes would never be removed and for the society dalits would remain dalits.
But all this could have been better if OBC quota would have served its immediate purpose in an effective way. There are many irregularities and loop holes which are needed to be considered about OBC quota, In its current form, it can be described as political quota having consequences unknown to the political class.
Currently OBC list is vague and not like SC/ST list which is quite clearly described in our constitution.
OBC list even before reservation has been plagued by the game of power and politics.
OBC refers to Other Backward Class. As it Class and not caste which many think it to be, it contains mainy different castes from different religions. Among Hindus, It primarily consists of those castes which were referred to Shudras in scriptures. They were actual peasant or working class which didn't enjoy high social status. They shouldn't be confused with the dalits or ati-shudras or outcastes. But with time, many such castes grew out of the control of social hierarchy and became very prominent and powerful. Some went on to become even rulers later in history. From past generations it has been found out that these castes were most forward in exploiting lowest castes [dalits] and exploited them more to gain more social and financial power.
The OBC list could have been refined to benefit the actual needy, it had to include only only who have been left out or more suppressed. The political, social and financial power gained by some of those castes polluted the entire classification of OBC list. They made it a sort of general list including everyone except brahmins, baniyas etc. The social , financial and political power gained by them over the period time enabled them to do so. Currently it contains many castes which historically have claimed to be superior and few castes like Ansaris of Muslims. While this list could have been well used to benefit historically disadvantaged sections like muslims and some socially degraded hindu castes, it has become an instrument to show off political power.
Surely brahmins, baniyas and others excluded from OBC list weren't the only ones to propagate and fiercely practise untouchablity and casteism in India. If this list is refined, it won't reach to the levels of 27%.
Also the reason for OBC quota by political class seems ambiguous to me. It definitely is not aimed at shaking the roots of caste system as OBCs are supposed to be higher castes. It is not aimed at providing exclusive benefit to the needy as the list is much plagued . Certainly it can serve to fill the irregularities in the distribution of resources within the country but in a vague manner.
OBC castes can never be compared to SC/ST on the economic, social or political fronts because there is no known hatred, dis concern prevailing in the society against OBCs like SC/STs ,Even OBCs consider themselves much ahead of dalits in social front, at certain places OBCs are know to have suppressed dalits than other castes. Though there is an extent of educational backwardness among them, but unlike SC/STs who were prohibited or discouraged for amassing wealth or living in the mainstream, the ancestral businesses and assets like land seem to be serving OBC generations well in many cases.
Even in political front OBCs are much ahead, the same OBC list has given many prominent leaders including former PMs and presidents.
Whatever OBC list is for, it is possible that OBCs who once favoured unruly casteist brahmins to define the caste system in India and gave a blind dimension to caste restrictions, now due to OBC reservation may provide much needed awakening of indian society, helping the un-privilidged and we will at last reach the much desired goal of social equality and re-establishment of humanity.

112 comments:

fire arms said...

no offense or disrespect to the cause of the OBC quota but i personally don't think they needed it at such a big figure of 27% because if one looks at the cutoff between gen,Obc,SC/ST you need to a magnifying glass to see difference in gen and OBC cutoff but when one looks at the Gen and SC/ST cutoff which in most of the cases isn't even the 50% of the last gen cutoff then only one feels a need for it .The cutoff for OBC's are a clear indication that in most of the cases they are at par in resources with Gen in some cases even more .........

indiyouth said...

right!!!!
It is not giving great benefit to OBC catg.
and Indeed 27% is huge fig. especially wen diff in cut off is not much. and considering the irregularities in OBC list, it can not be called a very wise decision.

Amit Srivastava said...

@indiyouth
Thanks for commenting on my blog.

I have been trying to understand the real problems and find the feasible solutions to the problems castes and related social backwardness. Your blog is definitely a good resource to look into.

Also, please point me to the incident where a guy with zero marks got admitted in iit. I probably missed it and can't seem to find it through google.

INDI YOUTH BLOGGER said...

Explain JEE cut-offs, CIC warns IIT

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/Single-digit-cutoffs-continue-to-dog-IIT/articleshow/4938014.cms

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/2440-explain-jee-cut-offs-central-information-commission-warns-iit.html

http://eklavyajee06.blogspot.com/2009/02/large-scale-bungling-in-iit-jee.html


http://antireservation2007.sulekha.com/blog/post/2008/08/pathetic-and-heart-breaking-iit-news.htm

The prejuced society sees and listens to what it wants to see/listen.
The case was brought to highlight due to RTI and was brought to the courts.
but most are unaware of it because the case seems to hurt prejudiced conceptions of the ppl so is not worth the masala to draw attention on thousands of news channels and national newspaprs.
I would soon write about this case on my blog.
This simply proves that the concept of merit is itself not flawless wthr u support merit or not is a diff question.

justicefordalits said...

@Author
Nice observation.

Amit Srivastava said...

This JEE cutoff story is an interesting one. IIT Professors had been playing with students for all along but this is probably the first time that they have been caught in the court.

Anyways, I don't understand how do you relate the cutoff story with the topic of casteism and social justice. Did I miss anything?

INDI YOUTH BLOGGER said...

I m not relating casteism and social justice to JEE or IIT.

I think every noble soul would understand there is severe for eliminating casteism and discrimination and social equality, has to be established.
social equality doesnt mean we have to flatten all cultures.

But i am a critic of anti-reservationists of India and not the critic of anti-reservation policy. I understand it merits and demerits very well.
By jee cut off i m trying to show the reality about what merit is our society talking about ?
and when we are talking about merit , we need to understand that it also has loopholes like the anti-reservatioin policy.
Also when we talk about "institutes like IIT and IIM " we need to consider that they are not flawless. Even they don't appear in top 100 instts all over world. So why so much hullaballoo is created when we talk about these instts, they are clearly not what ppl call institutes of exellence, though for developing India they might be, but we need to consider that those who are privilidged still leave the country and go for better institutes abroad.

So what i wanted to say is that this merit is superficial and unless we change our system of education and find better system of evaluating the talent of a person in specific field we need to come out with a better methods like the MIT, oxford, Cambridge etc have been using.

Amit Srivastava said...

It is really sad if deserving students are being denied the opportunity in this manner. It wasn't the case when I was writing these exams (~10 years ago). Back then, if you deserved to be in top 500 then you could be pretty confident of selection. Basically, if you had good preparation then you could be confident of selection. You did not need so much luck to steer you clear of whims related to cut-offs. Also, during my 4 year at iitk, I didn't really find anyone who didn't deserve to be there. So, I assume that these mal-practices related to cut-offs were probably not as prevalent as they are today. It may probably be because of the changed exam-pattern and the increased intake.

I admit that the global rankings of IIT's aren't anything to boast of. But, that does not allow us to compromise the merit being admitted into these institutes. Infact, we should work on ways to improve the quality of intakes in IIT's so that they can achieve the status they are expected to. Though, there are many more problems at iit's that stop them from improving themselves; faculty attitude could be one of them, but I wouldn't delve into that.

To say that merit isn't compromised with the quota system will be totally untrue. Though, the extent of it can be debated. IMO the quota system at-least helps in enhancing the standards of the society and therefore increases the availability of merit in future. There are sections of our society which are completely left out of the global mainstream and we need to provide them opportunities to get into the mainstream. If properly implemented, the quota system should bring more good in long term by creating a bigger pool of talent in the country.

Anyways, what did you mean by "better methods like the MIT, oxford, Cambridge etc have been using."?

INDI YOUTH BLOGGER said...

yes you are right.
I m glad to find at least one IITian to grow out of this rat race to kill other rats. I really liked your understanding of things. plz drop me a friendship request on facebook, the link to it is given in the blog.
Ofcourse, the quota dilutes merit. I dont deny that. As i already explained you I am not anti- or pro reservationist here, I m just being a critic of Anti-reservationists in India. And you can very well understand why?
About the merit, i say that due to this rat race and luck factor and mushrooming of year by year training centres /make up centres/ coaching centres, true merit cant be identified.
True merit is not what our system of education and non-uniform yield of educational resources yield.
If you look at the western world carefully, we are just experiencing what 20 or 40 years down the line, developed nations have already experienced on the educational front.
The selection in reputed universities all over the world depends much lesser on what we define as "merit factor" considering the fact that no examination can judge a person's talent in any specific field.
In universities like cambridge oxford stanford, a unique and better method of judging eligiblity and merit of candidates is practised.
In some it is in the form of point system like 60 % wieghtage is given to the exam and rest 40 % depends on other things because obviously one with better resources would do better in compptv examination front especially when the number of seats are so limited that even luck is considered a factor.
Though there also exist special points for minority groups as well [called affirmative action]. I m not going into that. I m just judging the ideal definition of merit and try to find out wether this merit is real merit we looking for.
The universities all over the world almost invariable involve what they call diversification process.
It is done like , they reserve or call invite different candidates from different background like , many seats are thought to be filled by african black candidates, some by asian ppl, some by disadvantaged cultures of their own country.
Sometimes it is done voluntarily, like out of rest 40 % points, if those diversed groups are called with others, they are given extra points to encourage diversification.
Thats how mostly many seats abroad are filled by indians, asians, chinese. etc.
this is most times voluntarily by the university as they think it to be better for the overall image and development of the university. and sometimes it is forced by affirmative action, where the university/company has to make goals to achieve the diversification/social involvement before the admission/recruitment. those goals vary every year and it is tried to improve figures every time. Each year,universities have to fill the diff number of candidates filled in diff categories to the affirmatv action agency.
But the running governemnts hve been seen to be more harsh in implementing affirmative action so thats why debate came in on it like our reservation system.Apart from this many seats are filled through other criterias like nominations by the government , agencies funding the university, toppers in high schools etc etc.

INDI YOUTH BLOGGER said...

Like recently in december 2009 , it was in news that oxford university has been given stricter instruction by the govt to meet harsher goals and improve the involvement figures closer to the what they thought it should be [like population data].
In the synopsis of the decision it was found out that around 30-40 % candidates in oxford selected are ones from the private schools where less than 7% of the studnts study. Out of 93% studnts studying in govt schools in england, the ratio of their selection is quite low. So it was seen as some kind of problem in the system of evaluation or the complete education system. So thats why the need for such point system has to be considered along with diversification policy.
Just forget the diversification for one moment, if we look at our own education system and analyze its figures we can very well assert how deeply uneven distribution of resources affects the reach of other resources like education.
this is in some way means that our whole population is not given equal oppurtunity to avail them.
Even resources availablity for one generation affects the same in future generations.
Though affirmative action doesnt take racial discrimination much into account, but it justs evens the odds present in the society due to it. Our present system is pretty wrong. In our defination of merit , there is no option left other than to reserve particular number of seats. Although 50% becomes very very harsh. But to achieve greater goal of country's overall development we have to take every one along in this realm of growth.
The greater need is to change the system be the education system , social system. But the greater need is in suffering due to the hypocrisy of the society and govt and inablity to foresee the real cause by both.

INDI YOUTH BLOGGER said...

while dealing with education system in India, we face other problems concerning quality and quantity of higher education places. The foreighn model may seem to be impracticle here because of huge shortage of such institutions which maintain a certain standard. Like in other nations where the demand and supply ratio is maintained in such a way that it doesnt create that much hue and cry, when institutions /governments choose their own way to what they think is best for the institution and country as whole. I think our main problem lies here. how can we ever compare be it in quality or quantity a top university like Oxford who takes around 30-40 thousand students at least in an year with our IITs who used to take only 3-4 k. And after IITs not many institutes maintain that certain standard. So in short, while 5 ppl are fighting for a seat in Oxford, more than 100 or 200 are fighting for seat in IIT. And if they they curse the one who gets it [through any means] , we cant blame them. So in greater perspective, our government should seriously think of real issues like this which i assume they are doing so by immediate surge of institutes like IITs, IIIT etc.
And people should understand the real issue and not run away from it. Surely to increase number of IITs/NITs is having more farsighted view than concerning about their standard.
What standard we are talking about when they always have been for exlusive elites and still they have continued to degrade their standards and been following malpractises like this one ?
Its the time that we should look at our elder cousins like Oxfords, Cambridges etc and analyze how they have grown and continued to improve and give the best to the society and this human race.
Because every thing comes back to the society in some sense. A person success with society's involvement is of no use to nebyd.

Amit Srivastava said...

I totally agree with you that our measurement of merit is flawed. But, copying the methods used in universities abroad may not be a good option. Let me point out some major differences between Indian and westerns conditions.

1. African Americans form around 12.3% of the American population. The difference in prosperity levels between whites and blacks is also very huge. To quote my personal experience, I stay in a Washington DC suburb and used to take the public-bus for commuting to office. The bus used to be completely packed (except people hanging on the doors) but it was rare to find even a single european american in the whole bus. European Americans comprise more than 70% of the population.

2. A 5% black population in a white university would be considered very high. Contrast that with India conditions, more than 70% of the population has been classified as backward with 50% reservations.

3. MIT has 10,000+ students for a population of 300 million, compare that with 3000-5000 for each IIT against a population of 1 billion.

4. US has 40 out top 50 universities while India has 4 in the top 1000.

I have pointed out the differences just to bring the point that few quota based admissions may not have any effect or negligible effect on the academic level of a american university. But, the kind of quotas we are looking at in India is bound to have a huge effect on the overall academic level.

Americans have the concept of affirmative action to bring the African Americans into the mainstream, get them away from crime and improve their socio-economic status. This whole thing may have minor effect on the overall economy of US. Contrast this with the Indian conditions, 70%+ of our population is not in a position to contribute to the advancement of the country which is terrible. We are pressed into a condition with lesser resources and huge demands. And therefore, we may need a very different kind of solution.

Add to it the problems of corruption. Imagine what can happen with the sort of discretionary 40% (that you proposed).

The truth is that our schools aren't producing any talent. If anything, they crush it. Most of the talent we see today are the ones who defied their parents and teachers. If we have to copy something from the westerners, then we should copy their teaching methodologies for young kids. The competition in India will make everything else follow.

On the higher education front, I think that India should dump a lot more money and increase the capacity.

INDI YOUTH BLOGGER said...

yes i agree on you completely and
in last of my comment i have already pointed out why Indian universities cant be compared with those abroad.
the points 2,3, 4 you raised , i have already explained in my last comment.
so what was not left to explain was the first comment. Regarding that also our perceptions match.
In my OBC quota post i have already explained how OBC quota is flawed and is not aimed at actual needy. there are huge irregulirities in even the original OBC list.
But the situation u explained about african black pop somewhat matches with the sc/st pop of india.
many OBCs cant be termed as historically backward when we compare them with SC/STs. Its like comparing black pop in Europe with Jews.
there is huge gap when we compare sc/sts with even OBCs.
Gap does exist between OBCs and other class.
But it is not so that OBCs havent been in mainstream. While SC/STs have been dinied this privilidge sowhat marginalizing them from the society.
Much of discrimination against SC/STs have been proved to be from So called OBCs in our villages even till date.
And if you compare the participation of SC/STs in the society, the differences are quite evident
forget about 27 billionaires of whom no one is sc/st. you can clearly find some OBCs closer to that kind or fortune. But you wont find the same for any SC/St here.
As india denies any census based on caste. Some data provide by diff agencies clearly show their apathy.
As i have quoted some data in my blog too
like read this one.
http://reservationfacts.blogspot.com/2008/12/situation-of-middle-class-and-upper.html
ASSOCHAM (Associated Chambers of Commerce and Industry of India), set up in 1920. one lakh individual company membership, no Dalit company member till now.[the figures are of 2006 and you can assume there is no evident overnight]

Actually the class difference in SC/STs and rest of ppl is very huge.
IF you compare poor of marginilized sc/sts and rest of ppl and similarly middle class of sc/sts and rest of ppl and similarly the diff in rich class you would difference is very very huge. while most of sc/sts are poor and their situation more dismal than others , there is very very thin layer of rich class among them which is itslf not anywhere comparable to billionaires.
So class difference is huge.
Same is the case of american economy [comparing black nationals with others].
Or may be there case may seem brighter of larger size of US economy.
Election of OBAMA does indeed showed the brighter sign. but we are yet to similar thing in our country.

varaprasad said...

bastards shut your holes ..
looting India intellectual power in the name of reservations.

India will never develop because of you bstards

INDI YOUTH BLOGGER said...

@^^^^^
ofcourse, people like have made india a super power and powerful enough to criticize affirmative action policy followed by them and even and ohh......how can i forget racism ?
Who m i to argue about india's great intellects like you ? :P

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Anonymous said...

I really appreciate your blog writing skill...
//OBC quota could have been great boon to this developing country by helping all those who have been left out of the growth scene.//

Now this is a great equation:
reservation = growth + prosperity
But the problem is you need to point out who is growing and prospering - people or the nation.
If people referred to the entire population in general sense there would have been no have been no harm in calling it the growth & prosperity of the nation. Here only a group is being undue advantage. It is amazing that everyone in India wants to remain backward yet climb up the social ladder and is up to making India progress.
//Whatever OBC list is for, it is possible that OBCs who once favored unruly casteist Brahmins to define the caste system in India//
That shows your antipathy towards the entire Brahmin caste. Wow! I guess the Brahmins are no longer unruly after all these smiting.

Kabir Gandhi said...

I would appreciate if you could throw some light on the constitutional history and validity of Reservations in India.

Article 14, 15, 16 of Constitution along with few landmark cases need to be discussed to apprecuate the legality of Reservations.

Politics is fine; you are stating what is obvious, how about hitting the nail on its head. You have tried to be too politically correct, and "catch-all."

You also need to put some research into gathering empirical data on the effectiveness of Reservations in India, and perhaps compare it with other Affirmative Actions adopted by other countries to check similar vices.

Lastly, it was a worthy read, I appreciate your effort, and wish you great luck!!

I

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